In Louisiana, Right On Crime Director Scott Peyton recently joined talk show host Ian Hoch on WWL radio to discuss the hasty passage of bills in the recent special legislative session on crime, particularly the reversal of Louisiana’s 2017 Justice Reinvestment Initiative.
Peyton praised Gov. Jeff Landry for focusing on crime but said the nine-day process was not enough time, with many bills being rushed through without adequate debate or study. Peyton warned that fear-driven policy decisions can lead to poor governance and a lack of focus on evidence-based solutions.
Ian Hoch, Host of WWL Radio:
Landry’s public safety agenda through the Louisiana legislature in recent days argued there is no price too great to stop crime. Brushing aside concerns that their policies could cost the state millions. This approach frustrated Landry’s opponents and some good government groups who said an apparent rush to make the governor’s criminal justice vision a reality, and the bills’ fiscal impact is unclear. “We have to pay whatever it takes to keep our community safe. But it has to be for something that’s the best use of our money while accomplishing that goal,” said Scott Payton, a former parole officer and the Louisiana Director for Right On Crime, a group that advocates for prison reform through a conservative policy lens. Mr. Peyton joins us on the line right now. Scott, thanks for joining us.
Scott Peyton, Right On Crime:
Thanks again for having me.
Ian Hoch, Host of WWL Radio:
Let’s start with the basics here. Just give us an overview of Right On Crime, what your organization’s goals are, what challenges you’ve had, what successes you’ve had.
Scott Peyton, Right On Crime:
Sure, Right On Crime is a conservative organization. And we seek conservative solutions to reduce crime, restoring victims, reforming offenders and ultimately if we do all three of those right, we save taxpayer dollars, and we achieve the ultimate goal, which is public safety. So all of our policies are viewed through the lens of public safety.
Ian Hoch, Host of WWL Radio:
I love it. Okay. So, the sort of $60,000 question for me, everybody knows that fiscal responsibility is a really key component of conservative governance. But in my view, it often seems like that’s often not evenly applied. We’re careful not to spend too much on infrastructure, education, social programs, health care, but there’s a perception at least that there’s always money in the banana stand for public safety, whoever broadly wanted to find that. For example, it’s hard for me to imagine a governor declaring a state of emergency over Louisiana’s terrible health care outcomes and calling a special session and suspending the normal rules and clearing 20 bills in 10 days, half of which the cost can’t even really accurately be forecasted. Why is it different when it’s about crime?
Scott Peyton, Right On Crime:
That’s a really good question. And it’s a question that we deal with across the nation—having conservatives apply those same conservative principles to the criminal justice system, as we deal with every other aspect of government. We want to make sure we’re getting the best use of our dollars, and we accomplish that by using the data, the research and what other states are doing. We do that in education. We do that in all other aspects of government. And we have to rely on this as well when it comes to criminal justice. Unfortunately, sometimes the easiest solution, as we know in life, is not the best solution. We have an over reliance on incarceration as the only tool to combat crime. And there’s evidence there’s research out there that other states are doing it, other conservative states are doing it without over relying on incarceration.
Ian Hoch, Host of WWL Radio:
I see okay, so let’s talk about the tic and tac of this flight of bills that’s just sailing through the special session. Given this conservative framing that your organization likes to put on these sorts of policies. What were some of the specific bills that you advocated for or others that you disagreed with?
Scott Peyton, Right On Crime:
Well, I’ll start with the shortlist here. I think the bill of Representative Butler’s increases the use of specialty courts and it’s a good win for victims. It’s also a good win for reforming those who are entering into the criminal justice system. Drug courts traditionally have had a single digit recidivism rate. They have been effective. I’ve seen it firsthand. As a probation or parole officer for 10 years, I have referred many people to drug court and I know many success stories there. And we have the data and the research to back that up. So that was a good bill. In general, like you mentioned, I disagree with the process here.
You know, Gov. Landry is right in tackling crime, and this is a must-focus for his administration. And if you look at his background, he’s a former law enforcement officer. He’s been in the military, and he served eight years as our chief legal officer in his role as Attorney General. So, he’s positioned to effectively tackle this problem that has challenged Louisiana for decades.
But it can’t be done in nine days. We left 21 days on the table in this special session. The special session ended only weeks before the regular session and some of these bills, answering your second part of the question, don’t even go into effect until August of 2024. And these bills were debated just for a few hours. Many of them skipped the House Appropriations Committee, and eventually made it to a Finance Committee in the Senate, but there was not enough time for debate to really study the issues.
We need to know what currently works, what needs to be fixed, and what we need to eliminate. The overwhelming majority of the 38 bills that were rushed through the session have a simple solution, eliminate what we’ve done, increase penalties and increase incarceration.
Ian Hoch, Host of WWL Radio:
I’m glad you mentioned eliminate what we’ve done. I think if you think I’m wrong about this, please let me know. A sort of fast way to explain about what we’ve done here with the special session is that we’re reversing the Justice Reinvestment Initiative, this bipartisan package that we passed in 2017 that aimed to reduce incarceration rates and invest more in rehabilitative services. What was the view on that piece of legislation at the time in 2017, as it was being negotiated and passed into law? Did your group and others in your orbit think oh no, this is a bad bill or did you support it at the time?
Scott Peyton, Right On Crime:
In 2017, I was actually working these reforms as they came into place as a probation and parole officer, but Right On Crime was at the table along with the Pelican Institute, Louisiana Family Forum, Louisiana District Attorneys Association, the Sheriffs Association, and an entire variety of advocates to support when Governor Jindal created the task force back in 2015 to get together and study this. So it was years of preparation, and groups like Pew Research, were involved and other outside groups to provide us with that research and to show us what’s working in other states.
And in that way, we can apply them here effectively in Louisiana. At the Capitol last week, I testified on H.B. 9, introduced by Representative Villio, which basically eliminates discretionary parole and eliminates good time earnings as well as several other mechanisms used to enhance success in these programs. I testified about what South Carolina did, they basically in 2009 did everything that we are eliminating in the special session and they now see a 14% recidivism rate. And their violent crime rate has dropped 10 points which is five times more than the national average over those years. They did it and had the same backing from outside support, and they made this work. Louisiana has seen a decrease in crime, excluding COVID when the nation saw an increase in crime. Our crime rate was decreasing prior to COVID. And we’re one of the few states who is seeing a post COVID crime reduction as well.
Ian Hoch, Host of WWL Radio:
I have a text here from a frequent listener of ours who says reduction of crime cost is not a factor if the government is doing good? But to that point, it makes me wonder about it. This goes back to the first question I had is that it’s very easy to just throw gobs of money at these problems and not expect that there’s going to be any consequences if they don’t work. But if we move that sort of framing into another area of governance like health care and education, this stuff never gets off the ground floor. So, I don’t know as I guess I’m just kind of asking as a layperson. What is it about this specific set of issues that makes those guardrails come away?
Scott Peyton, Right On Crime:
When we look at crime, every person here in the state, from a financial standpoint for businesses wanting to come here, from us feeling safe to walk in a parking lot in the middle of the night to pick up that last minute set of groceries- we have a right to feel safe. So, there’s a lot of fear associated with crime and rightfully so. I mean, we have absolutely the highest than we’ve traditionally had for decades, some of the highest crime rates, whether it’s violence, whether it’s homicide, or any other related crime. So people are afraid and what happens is a lot of times we’re frustrated, lawmakers are frustrated, judges are frustrated. And there’s this big backlash to do something immediate. To go against the good governance principles of research and data. Follow what works best with fear. A lot of times lawmakers are driven by fear when it comes to crime rates, but we have to void ourselves of that emotion when we’re looking at policy and what is going to be best for our state. We’re not coddling criminals. We’re not being soft on crime. We’re being smart on crime and we’re being tough on crime by doing the things that work. And I think sometimes the financial cost gets way too much more attention than is needed. We’re going to pay what it takes. But it has to work. These bills are going contrary to the evidence that they’re doing just the opposite of what some of our other conservative states are doing. And they have success. You’re not going to look at Texas and say that they’re a crime ridden state, Oklahoma, Georgia, Utah, South Carolina. Even Mississippi has even implemented some of the reforms that we’ve done and they’re seeing results. So, this was not something in 2017 that Governor John Bel Edwards just dreamed up. It was brought to him by groups from conservative groups here inside the state.
Ian Hoch, Host of WWL Radio:
The last thing I want to talk to you about is the financial impact of all these laws is expected to take many years to become clear. So how do you and your organization plan to measure the success or address the challenges that that may not come into focus, you know, until 2030, or even later?
Scott Peyton, Right On Crime:
There was a recent report by the Louisiana Legislative Auditor that reviewed the 2017 Justice Reinvestment Initiative. One of the findings of the report said that we need better data collection and not just data collection, but an ability to analyze that data, being able to look at trends and use that to form and shape policy. So, we’re going to have to put measures in through legislation, through policy with different criminal justice agencies and stakeholders to be able to determine what is working. What are the effects of this legislation, and has it made a difference? Just like we won’t experience the cost, we also won’t experience crime prevention or any deterrence effect, if any, of the things passed in the special session until a few years down the road. If you’re buying into the idea that longer sentences are going to equal greater public safety, we won’t reach that additional sentence mark until about two years which will be past August of 2024.
Click here to hear the entire interview on WWL Radio on 3/4/2024.